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Living Cost in Kunming
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Humayun -

Hi Evreryone!

I am planning to enroll myself at Yunnan Normal University at the beggining of 2009 for 1 year
initialy and I may continue another year for study. I want to live outside the campus of my own or
with a chinese family. Is there anybody who have recent idea of living Kunming and the living
expenditure. I am a simple man and I live very plain way. Any suggesstions in this regard will be
highly appreciated.

Humayun Alam

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mr.stinky -

start here –> http://www.gokunming.com/en/classifi…hp?folder_id=8

zozzen -

Welcome to join the expat team in km.

rental cost:
expect RMB350-1000. Many students live in 五华 district , which is the hub of most universities.
Some old apartment at 3th or above floor (without a lift) can be very cheap. Check the estate
agency around the district, but you have to pay a month rental payment as a commission. If you
don’t want this, try to google “昆明 地产” , a lot of websites can serve it. ( the classified
ads in gokunming.com, as expected, is overpriced because they all target for english speaking
laowai, but it’s not bad to take it as a reference )

An apartment for single (around 40-50 square ft) is popular too. My friend rented a newly built
and fully furnished apartment for RMB850 at 北市区, which is full of new estates for middle
class in kunming.

Because you’re going to enroll at the Normal University, try to check these estates and their
neighboring areas:
丽江小区 and 实力北岸: 15 mins for riding a bike to the school, many new estates there.
苏家塘: popular place for students at the Normal university. It’s older estate (not necessarily
cheaper now), but only 3mins for riding bikes to your school.)

Transportation:
If you’re going to stay there for a year, buy a electronic-bike. 都市风 is the cheapest choice
(RMB1300-1500), 麦特龙 and 阿米尼 are the most famous (RMB1800 up). The lanes for bicycle
are fairly well-developed in kunming. There’s a road construction project in kunming now, and
riding on bicycle can keep you away from the deteriorating traffic jam. If you can prevent it from
being stolen (very serious in KM) and at least using it for 3-6 months, the cost of this bike
should cover all expenditure on taxi and bus. To buy motorbikes, go to 西昌路. You can get all
brands there.

Dining:
Local taste can be very cheap, RMB3.5- 5 can make you full and RMB60 is the price for big
restaurant. If you need western food, head to 文化巷, which is a small soho for expats to meet.
Expect RMB30 to small lunch there. Salvador’s is the most popular cafe among expats, 水井
possibly serve the best coffee, the best new york style cheese is served at Vintage cafe, and the
atmosphere of prague cafe is nicest.

Computer
Internet at home is around RMB140 / month, around RMB120/ month if you sign a contract for a year.
If you don’t want this, bring a strong WIFI reciever (at least 10db). Free (and unsecure ) Wifi is
getting popular.
But if don’t have a notebook, try to stop by Hong Kong. Because of no sales tax and import tax,
the offer is at least 15% cheaper than china. My thinkpad is even 20% cheaper.

Supermarket
Walmart and Carrefour are well developed in KM, but the best supermarket that serves western food
is Metro (german chain store). They have small variety of cheese but expect 10-30% markup on this
compared to the price at home. If you’re concerned with home sick, take your home sauces and
spices to kunming.

Job:
Offiicially you need a working visa, but no one is concerned with this. The most popular job for
students is to teach english, from RMB30- 50 per hour. And some western restaurants run by local
people are also eager to employ westerners. Pay for local waitress is often RMB2-5 per hour, don’t
expect much higher for westerners. (that’s why some western waiters ask for free-of-charge food
only)

liuzhou -

Quote:

Internet at home is around RMB140 / month, around RMB120/ month if you sign a contract for a year.

That is way too expensive! I just renewed my annual contract with China Telecom, today.

¥660 for the year. ¥55 a month.

zozzen -

Quote:

just renewed my annual contract with China Telecom, today.

¥660 for the year. ¥55 a month

what………….? why is it happened? Is it in Kunming or guangxi?

my friend just set up an internet connection in KM for the first time, and the China Telecom
charged him over RMB1000/year. Going to double check this.

liuzhou -

It’s in Guangxi, but I don’t see why Kunming should be almost double.

roddy -

No point in comparing unless you are also comparing Internet speeds. Regardless, telecoms are run
very much on a provincial / city level, and your local company will have its own pricing policy.
Different cities, different prices.

ABCinChina -

Sounds like the cost of living in Kunming is dirt cheap when compared to Shanghai and other cities
nearby. Good luck!

mr.stinky -

kunming adsl annual fee is 1018. (sorry i can’t figger out the speed)
this includes 50 for the modem and 8 for install.

annual renewal fee is 960 (monthly fee is 150 for unlimited service).

fee to change address as you moved with time remaining on contract: 58

fee to change the name on your contract cause it’s in your ex-girlfriend’s name
and you don’t have a copy of her id card: 10

interesting note…..you cannot change the physical residence address without her
id, but you can change the contract into your name, and then change the address.

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  > Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Jaguar (the car)
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SeekerOfPeace -

Is their a Chinese equivalent for a Jaguar (the luxurious car)?

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roddy -

You mean a translation for the brand name, or a Chinese manufacturer of luxury cars. And if tell
us why you want to know, you look friendlier

SeekerOfPeace -

Quote:

You mean a translation for the brand name, or a Chinese manufacturer of luxury cars.

I mean the translation of the brand name.

As for your question:

Quote:

And if tell us why you want to know, you look friendlier

:

It’s from the Cather in the rye:

“He’s going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a
Jaguar.”

I would like to explain to some Chinese people the meaning of “Jaguar” but I want to be more
specific than just saying: “It’s an expensive car”.

Lu -

Google ‘jaguar china’ and you’ll find the car is called 捷豹. Good translation, I think.

zozzen -

if you want the name of car manufacturers which are famous for making expensive cars in china,
it’s 寶馬 (BMW), 奔馳 (Benz) and Ferrari (法拉利). I seldom meet any chinese who don’t know
them, Jaguar and Rolls-Royce aren’t as famous as them yet.

Jack MacKelly -

Quote:

捷豹. Good translation, I think

What is the literal translation of these two characters, I’m thinking Agility, Tiger - or
something like that

SeekerOfPeace -

Ok, thank you.

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  > Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Sentences can be made without a verb?
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zozzen -

Quote:

他是饿了. 他是很高. 他是很高兴.
I don’t believe any of these are grammatically correct as stand alone statements

It depends. All the following sentences sound native to Chinese, but their structure is what you
described as “grammatically incorrect”. let’s figure out the grammar rule behind it.

“你原谅他吧, 他是冲动了一点, 但他没有恶意的.”
“你知道吗? 你是最好的.” (famous dialogue in Stephen Chow’s movie)
“她是太好胜了.”
“他就是牛!”
“甚么是好, 甚么是坏, 谁说得准”
“某某同志是好的, 他的用心也是好的, 但他的表现方式是错误的.” (
活像老毛年代的话)

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Lu -

“你原谅他吧, 他是冲动了一点, 但他没有恶意的.”
“某某同志是好的, 他的用心也是好的, 但他的表现方式是错误的.”
This is the 是…但… construction, it is actually grammatically correct. ‘It is true that xxx,
but yyy.’

“你知道吗? 你是最好的.” (famous dialogue in Stephen Chow’s movie)
“他就是牛!”
This is using 是 for emphasis: somebody else might disagree, but he is actually very 牛/ you are
really the best.
Also, 你是最好的 is using 是…的, also a correct grammatical pattern.

“甚么是好, 甚么是坏, 谁说得准”
I think this one becomes incorrect when you leave out the 是, but I can’t explain why.

Quote:

Even in speech, “我荷蘭人” sounds awkward to native ears.

I’m not a native speaker, so who am I to disagree, but still I disagree. It is very 口語, and
you can’t always use it, but sometimes you can.

HashiriKata -

There are legitimate cases where 是 is not needed before a noun (ie, a nominal predicate):

你几岁了？
今天星期三。
这双鞋八十块。

(Of course, one can say 是 is omitted in these sentences but the counter argument is equally
strong.)

zozzen -

Quote:

1. “你原谅他吧, 他是冲动了一点, 但他没有恶意的.”
“某某同志是好的, 他的用心也是好的, 但他的表现方式是错误的.”
This is the 是…但… construction, it is actually grammatically correct. ‘It is true that xxx,
but yyy.’

2. “你知道吗? 你是最好的.” (famous dialogue in Stephen Chow’s movie)
“他就是牛!”
This is using 是 for emphasis: somebody else might disagree, but he is actually very 牛/ you are
really the best.
Also, 你是最好的 is using 是…的, also a correct grammatical pattern.

3. “甚么是好, 甚么是坏, 谁说得准”
I think this one becomes incorrect when you leave out the 是, but I can’t explain why.

4. “我荷蘭人”
I’m not a native speaker, so who am I to disagree, but still I disagree. It is very 口語, and
you can’t always use it, but sometimes you can.

Though I’m almost a native Chinese speaker (with some confusion in s/sh, x/q/c all the time only),
i don’t know much about Chinese grammar rule. The usage of “是” is very interesting to me, I can
tell what’s native and what’s bad Chinese, but i can’t tell the rule behind it.

Hey, is there Chinese speaker here? Please come and share your view.

1. Is there “是…. 但” in Chinese structure where “是” can’t be omitted? I don’t think so.
”我很醜，但我很善良” In this sentence, we don’t need “是”, but it’s 100% native.

2. 是 seems not to be ONLY for emphasis here. If that were just for emphasis, we’d say “他牛”
when we didn’t need emphasis. But “他牛” isn’t Chinese.

3. Yes, in this sentence we can’t take “是” out. But we can also say
”哪個人好，哪個人壞，我難道不懂分嗎？. This sounds native.

4. I can’t think of any situation that we can say “我荷蘭人” to express “I’m Dutch”, even in
very informal conversation. When you are asked where you come from, you can say
“荷蘭”、”荷蘭人”, or ”我是荷蘭人”. “是” can’t be omitted in this situation.

jade- -

Quote:

Originally Posted by zozzen:

Though I’m almost a native Chinese speaker (with some confusion in s/sh, x/q/c all the time only),
i don’t know much about Chinese grammar rule. The usage of “是” is very interesting to me, I can
tell what’s native and what’s bad Chinese, but i can’t tell the rule behind it.

Hey, is there Chinese speaker here? Please come and share your view.

I am not sure why you said “I’m almost a native Chinese speaker”? You are either a native
speaker or a non-native speaker, how does this “almost” part work? There are a lot of native
speakers who can not distinguish zh ch sh from z c s, so confusion on these can not prevent you
from being a native speaker. But I don’t understand how you confuse x and q? They are pronounced
quite differently.

Jokes aside, I am a native speaker, but not sure what you guys are arguing about here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zozzen:

4. I can’t think of any situation that we can say “我荷蘭人” to express “I’m Dutch”, even in
very informal conversation.

Yes, you can say “我荷蘭人” to express “I’m a Dutch” during a conversation. For example:

甲：我都不知道，原来你不是德国人啊。
乙：我荷兰人。– “是” can be omitted here

This is especially true when speaking on the phone:

甲：喂？
乙：喂，我小王啊。– “是” is omitted here

Quest -

Quote:

We sometimes say “咱們中國人要怎樣怎樣….” but it refers to “We, as Chinese people,
must blah blah blah blah” .

I think more often it’s expressed as “We Chinese….”

Mugi -

zozzen, unfortunately none of your examples matches the initial examples in grammar, so in fact I
wouldn’t define any of your examples as gramatically incorrect. Where we essentially had only two
separate grammar patterns (although the original question was only for one), you’ve now introduced
5 new ones!! (Your second and last examples represent the same grammatical pattern.) While they
may look similar, all of them actually differ from the original examples. And I’m afraid I don’t
have the energy at the moment to go into the whys and wherefores.

zozzen -

frankly, i’m full of energy but i admit that i don’t know how to explain when “是” can be
omitted, when it can’t be.

The aim of mentioning many sentence structures that use “是” is to find out the rule about when
“是” can’t be omitted, and when it can be. The rule seemed to be arbitrary and there’s always
exception on each pattern.

I begin to come to a pessimistic conclusion that that’s all about idiomatic usage. If that’s the
case, good luck to all learners. You have to remember all these and that seems to be very
difficult for non-native speakers to do it.

Lu -

Native speakers don’t need to know the rules, since they already speak the language. Grammar rules
are the most useful for people who are learning the language, and need some guidelines on what is
and what isn’t correct. So, zozzen, don’t worry that you don’t know the whys. If you are
interested, you could find a Mandarin grammar book. It’s not all idiomatic, fortunately, there are
rules.

但 can be used without 是, just like ‘but’ in English. It can also be used in the 是…但…
construction. Two different ways of usage.

他牛 is wrong (btw does this use 牛 as a noun or as an adjective?), just like *她高=She’s
tall or *我窮=I’m poor is wrong. You need a 很 or something similar. The explanation is
something like: 高 does not just mean ‘tall’. It means ‘to be taller’. 她高 can be the answer
to the question ‘who of you is taller?’, and then it means ‘She’s the taller one.’ But if you
would encounter a tall woman in the street, you can say 她很高 or 她好高 or 她比你高 but
not *她高.
I hope that makes sense. Probably not.

And thank you jade for an example of 我荷蘭人.

jade- -

Lu, you are welcome.

zozzen, I agree with Lu, we native speakers don’t know as many grammar rules as you do (that is
why I don’t know what you are arguing about), we only know how to speak the language.

The rule of thumb is you follow the grammar rules so your speaking and writing can be and will be
understood. The more you practice the language (listening, speaking, reading and writing), the
more you will grasp the language. Then you will know when to omit the “是”, and when not to. If
your grammar book says not to omit the “是”, don’t omit it now. Omit it only when you are sure
it is right. E.g. if you don’t feel it is right, don’t say 我荷兰人，always say
我是荷兰人。

Unfortunately, grammar rules in a language are not like these in rocket science, they don’t cover
everything, and are arbitrary sometimes. I had the same feeling as you are having now in my
English study. But don’t be discouraged and pessimistic, keep practicing and one day you will
surprise yourself that you omit the “是” during your speaking as it comes out naturally. I have
been helped by many many native speakers during my English study, this is the main reason I am
here, I would like to help people to learn Chinese. If my words discourage you from learning
Chinese, I apologize since it is not my original goal.

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